Since purchasing my 944 I'd always been aware of a slight fluid leak, but since none of the fluids (engine oil, power steering, water, brake fluid) seemed to be disappearing at any great rate and there were other more pressing issues I decided to put investigating it on the back burner.
Having now decided to tackle the problem I firstly discovered I actually had two fluid leaks, one from a power steering hose going from the reservoir to the pump which I dealt with right away by replacing the hose. The second however seemed to be coming from the engine but it was difficult to tell where from due to the oily grime all over the bottom of the engine and aluminium floor tray. So now the rest of the story follows how I went about identifying the cause of the oil leak and how the OPRV (Oil Pressure Relief Valve) fits into the story.
THE TASK
You'll need the following:
Karcher or other brand Water Pressure Washer
Gunk Spray Engine Degreaser
10mm socket
17mm socket (if you have the old style OPRV)
24mm socket (if you have the new style OPRV)
Ratchet socket wrench
Long socket wrench extension bar
2 x Axle Stands
Trolley Jack
Torque Wrench
Plenty of tissue or old rag
THE HOW TO
(Amateur mechanic job time: approx. 30mins - 1 hour)
Start by jacking up the front of the car and support on the first or ideally second stage of the axle stands.
Remove the seven 10mm bolts that secure the aluminium under-tray to the bottom of the car and remove the under-tray.
The picture above was taken after I'd degreased the underside of the car. I tried various methods of scrubbing, wiping and pressure steam cleaning but by far the best was pressure washing.
The best method I found was to let the engine run for 10 mins to warm it up, then spray Gunk Engine Degreaser over all the oily blackness you may have (Do not spray it near the belts or any bearings). Let the degreaser have 5-10 mins to take effect and then simply blast off with the water pressure washer (There's hardly any electrics on the bottom of the car but avoid them at all costs). Spraying the washer in quick bursts is the best method. Repeat as necessary and wipe down anything that looks oily, not forgetting to also clean all the oil of the under-tray too.
Now you have a clean canvas to identify your leak. Unless the leak is bad you probably won't be able to see it straight away, so this is where some patience comes in. Either leave it jacked up over night and see if you can identify a drip in the morning or re-attach the under-tray and do a few miles to put the engine under load which usually force the oil out of the place it is escaping. When you jack the car up again, you'll be able to see the area where the oil is dropping on the under-tray and then just trace it back up into the engine well.
The oil on mine was falling onto the left hand-side of the under-tray so I started to investigate in this area as shown my the orange arrow below.
This is where I found a drip coming off the end of the OPRV (Oil Pressure Relief Valve) nut.
Here's a couple of photos to show you what to look for (The nut has been removed but you can see the port it screws into)
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THE OPRV - here's where it gets complicated:
83-86 models will have a 17mm or 24mm nut
87 models onwards will and should always be 24mm.
Picture shows the difference between the 24mm on the left, 17mm on the right.
The 17mm nut may also look like this one below as well (photo taken from another Porsche source)
From the 87 model onwards a new OPRV was produced along with a retro-fit upgrade for people with the old style valve.
Here's the NEW retro-fit valve (944 107 035 11) for 83-86 models
And here's the one (944 107 035 02) for 87 models onwards
The photo below shows what one of the newer OPRV's looks like when you take it apart. Note the aluminium sealing ring far left, damaged black internal O-ring in the middle and what should be a thicker green O-ring at the end (also damaged). If you need to replace the entire valve they aren't cheap either, £250 from Porsche.
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OPRV removal
Take a 17mm or 24 mm and socket extension bar that should be long enough to enable you to ratchet it from inside the wheel arch.
Once I had it removed I ended up with this
Notice the small nut that was inside the piston that some previous enterprising owner/mechanic had used as a space packer. I also found the spring to be 3-4 coils shorter than it should be, so who even knows what vehicle it was from. So not only did I have a leak from ORPV, I now had to replace the OPRV and at £250 that's quite a hit.
So here we are the OLD alongside the NEW
Installing the new OPRV is the reverse of removal, making sure you use a new aluminium sealing ring and lightly oil the o-ring and length of the valve to aid it's insertion. You should then use a Torque wrench to tighten to 45Nm.
Finally re-install the under-tray, run the car making sure the oil pressure gauge doesn't exhibit any strange behaviour and you're done...........well almost.
After doing all this I still found I had more oil leak coming from the same area, it now looks likely it's the gaskets for the Oil Cooler that the OPRV screws into. This looks a bit of an ugly job and not having the time to do it I'm going to get a mechanic to sort it out. For anyone that wants a go here's the procedure and here's another.
Finally here's the Porsche bulletin that goes into a few pages of detail on the OPRV. (Click the pictures for larger versions)
Hi Dave!
ReplyDeleteI have the same problem, and figured that it had to be the OPRV that has failed. You wrote that your OPRV was 3-4 coils shorter than the original, how many coils should there be?!
And do you know just how critical it is to insert the valve with the special alignment tool? I removed and inserted mine again, due to lack of scratches and damage.
My mail is joey@dirforsdesign.com if it's easier!
Regards Johan
Hi Mate, look at the 8th picture down in the post, this OPRV has approx 26 coils where as the one that came out of mine only had about 23 (9th picture down).
ReplyDeleteAs for the alignment tool you should only need if you remove the whole oil cooler itself. If you've just removed the valve and there are no scratches on it then I would say the alignment is correct so need for the tool. I've also been told by a Porsche mechanic that as long as you are careful you can use the newer OPRV to align the oil cooler should you need to remove it to change the gaskets and O'rings.
Hi Dave!
ReplyDeleteGreat blog site you have here - I've found your guides and experiences extremely useful already, with my somewhat slow (and expensive!) 944 S2 restoration!
Question regarding OPRV - I am beginning to suspect mine to be faulty, based on other peoples experiences and also the area of my engine bay that a particular noise is coming from. ...just wondered, before yours bagen to fail, did you experience any particular 'whine' noises between 1500rpm and 2500rpm?
Almost identical to the noise this person describes, although slightly less loud for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSO5KNgCrAM
Many thanks,
James Baker
Glad you've found the information here useful. There was no apparent noise like the example in the video link you posted. I simply replaced mine because it was leaking oil and because it appeared to have been bodged from parts that didn't appear to be genuine Porsche parts. Does it make the noise when the car is revved to that range when it is stationary ? Or when only when it is on the move? Or both?
ReplyDeleteThe noise appears both when the car is stationary and moving. I'm fairly confident its not drive train, diff or gearbox related (noise definitely comes from front drivers side of the engine bay), very much in the proximity of the OPRV, oil cooler area. I've also just rebuilt the power steering pump and installed new belt too, so I'm pretty sure its not that either (I was rather hoping it was of course!). The noise isn't there when the car is cold, and only appears after 5 or 10 minutes after running the engine up to temp. I'm almost at the stage of taking it to a real mechanic now :o) thinking JMG in Bournemouth possibly. I really hope it isn't a major bearing gone buried deep in the engine somewhere...please god! Thanks for your help though Dave, much appreciated! I eagerly await your next 'how to procedure' - any idea whats next on the list? James
ReplyDeleteHi James. Did you ever track the noise you had. My 91 S2 has exactly the same noise and symptoms and we are about to swap out a OPRV. Just wondering what you found since your post. Richard. NZ
DeleteIf it is the OPRV then the rubber o-rings (there are 2, one on the outside usually green and one inside the valve itself) are easy and cheap to replace - 20 minute job at the most. Just make sure you get the right ones for whichever OPRV you have. If the OPRV has any wear marks on it then you will need to replace the valve completely, the part alone is £250 from Porsche, and you'll probably want to be sure your oil cooler is aligned correctly before you insert it. I had the oil cooler seals done a year ago and that plus a annual service came to around £650 I think. Next how-to procedure is likely to be the thermostat and changing my single cooling fan for the later double fan version :)
ReplyDeleteHi Dave. I have a 1983 944 with 40K orig miles. The oil pressure disappeared yesterday after I chabged the solenoid on my started motor . when I started the car , it was on the jack at 20 deg angle (front up). Do you think this steep angle somehow killed the oil system ? I raced the engine a few times and still the oil light did not turn off . I thought the pressure sensor but the engine later satrted making clanking sounds so I investigated on the net . Per some one's advice, removed the OPRV and piston looks and feels smooth (even though has stains ) . I have not put it back yet and wondering what is wrong ? Any ideas please .
DeleteI wouldn't have thought the jacking angle would affect the car, I've been up steeper hills that that.
DeleteWhere did you get the advice about removing the OPRV? Have you tried asking the community on Pelican Parts forum they are always very knowledgeable.
I'm assuming you have the old style OPRV? If you do it's probably best to replace it anyway even though it's a costly part, you might be able to get a good secondhand one on ebay (then just buy the o ring refurb kit which is less than $20).
If you do go the ebay route remember you need the shorter version for a 1983 944.
DeleteHi Dave, more I think about it and speak to people, I think my particular issue is nothing to do with the OPRV. Possibly more like the oil pump. Still really useful to know how to replace the OPRV itself though - sure that job will come to me one day :o) Going down to JM Garage this weekend - hopefully they can identify it for me, and if it is oil cooler, that it doesn't cost me the earth.....please god!
ReplyDeleteGood luck. Have you been asking around on the various Porsche forums out there? Be good to read the threads to see what people have suggested, never know may come in handy for myself one day. Either way be sure to post back how you got the problem solved.
ReplyDeleteHi James, Dave
ReplyDeleteI have a '89 944S2 which has the same symptoms as James describes. It has been exhibiting what I can only describe as a resonating howling noise for the last few years with increasting frequency. It never does it when it is cold, it take 3/4 miles before I starts to do it. It makes the noise while stationary (clutch depressed) and the noise comes in between around 1k - 2.5k RPM. It feels a bit like a resonance when you are in the car. I've had all the belts plus rollers recently changed.
One interesting thing I have noticed is that when the oil is changed the noise seems to disappear for a while and then become less frequent, but over time it then creeps back again.
After reading yours and this article http://www.944online.com/cgi-bin/forum/forum.cgi?board=9442S;action=print;num=1305913525 I'm going to pull the OPRV and change the Oring seals for the hell of it. If it works I'll post back here.
Mark
Cheers Mark, glad you found my info useful, let me know how you get on
ReplyDeleteHi Dave
ReplyDeleteJust a note to say that I have now replaced the two o rings on my 944s2 and so far so good, no more noises. I am hoping that this will be the 6 year mystery finally solved!
Mark
Let's hope so, if the noise comes back then be sure to let us know.
ReplyDeleteDear Dave,
ReplyDeleteWhat a great site. Can you tell me if the old obsolete version of OPRV uses any o-rings? Or are they only needed in the new version?
Piotrek
There are NO 'O' rings on the old style style OPRV, only the new version has them.
ReplyDeleteCheers
Thank You!
ReplyDeleteBest,
Piotrek
This was very good information. My 944 was slow to show oil pressure on startup. I changed the valve in this blog and I now have great oil pressure. The dealer wanted over $500.00 labor, and yes you were right I did it in fifteen minutes. The valve cost me $430.00. Well I saved the $500.00.
ReplyDeleteThank You,
John
Hi. Do you mean the spring, the little piston and the Bolt cost you $430 ? These 3 parts dont look more than $20- to me .
DeleteYes unfortunately the new style OPRV (the one with the green 'O' ring) does cost $430. They don't sell the old style one (the one with the bolt, spring and piston) so I wonder if that was cheaper?
DeleteI'm doing the oil cooler seal replacement job on my '84 now, and I have the OPRV out. It is the old-style with no O-rings. I did not have any oil pressure problems prior to this job, but I did have an oily mess in this area, including PS leaks. My question is, why did Porsche find it necessary to change the design? Was it because of oil pressure control problems with the old OPRV design, or oil leaks past its smooth piston? I'm presently planning to reinstall the old OPRV (I have the alignment tool 9215 and a new seal for the spring cap/17mm nut). Is there anything extra I should do to reduce the possibility of oil leakage? As one might guess, I'm having a hard time justifying expenditure of $453 on a new OPRV.
DeleteI'm not sure why they changed the design but I would guess they changed because of improper oil pressure reasons. I'm sure someone on Pelican Parts forum would know the exact reason. If you had no oil pressure problems before with the old valve I'd stick with it unless a problem arises.
Deletehi Dave i have a question...i have a 1986 944 N/A on my car and also a 1988 N/A engine that i got from another car and want to know if i can instal the complete housing and oprv of the 88 on my 86? if so do i still have to use the steel sleeve thats on my 86 or it has to be removed ? i want to do this because i have to replace my 3 piece valve and since i have the spare engine i can doit and save $400 for the retro fit valve..thanks
ReplyDeleteIf you read page 5 of the tech bulletin above I believe it says the newer housing from 87 models can be fitted to earlier models. What are you referring to when you say 'steel sleeve'?
Deletethe steel sleeve that goes on the OPRV passage, arrow B on tech bulletin page 4..thanks
ReplyDeleteBy the sounds of it the sleeve is meant to be secured in the crank case, so since you are not changing the engine then I believe you should still keep it. You might want to put the same question to the community on Pelican Parts forum just to get a second, thrid or fourth opinion. That's what I would do.
DeleteHi Dave,
ReplyDeleteAwesome write up. I'm just in the middle of rebuilding my '86 924S and this is coming in very handy indeed!
Wanted to ask if you knew where I could get the alignment tool (9215) in the UK? I've looked around, and the only available ones are in the States. If you still have yours, any chance I could either buy it, or borrow it for a few days tops?
Thanks in advance,
Victor
Hi Victor, I'm not sure where you can pick up the proper tool. But if you have the newer type valve you can insert it into the oil cooler and then use it as a guide when you attach the oil cooler to the car, that's what most people do. If you have the older style valve it would still be worth picking up a used (not necessarily working) new style valve off ebay and just use it for the purpose of alignment before going back to the old valve if yours doesn't need changing. Hope that helps and please post back here if you do happen to source the proper tool from somewhere. Cheers
Delete